So you wouldn't consider a "white pride" license plate to be at all offensive to non-whites?
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:42:31 AM EST
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It is unfortunately the case that the concept of "white pride" has generally been associated with with hostility toward non-white ethnic groups. But people who consider themselves to be "white" could more specifically identify themselves as British, Irish, French, Swedish, German, Polish, Lithuanian, and so forth. There are dozens of European ethnicities, and it is possible to celebrate such ethnicities without implying any kind of racial supremacy, or any antagonism toward other ethnic groups.
You could reasonably inquire as to whether the effort to celebrate the Hispanic ethnicity is merely an expression of ethnic pride, or has the same kind of socially harmful element as we would expect to find in a "white pride" group. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It is often the case that people find it necessary, in order to support their own feeling of self-respect and self-worth, to take pride in their ancestors and in the entire ethnic group from which they derive. This is particularly true because when you see other people who make a point of celebrating their own ethnicity, you may not want to feel left out of this. And there is something good to be found in any ethnic group; some enjoyable type of food, music, or dancing; some admirable tradition, some historical accomplishments, etc. So if everyone takes pride in their own ethnic group without using that as a basis to attack or to think less of people from different ethnic groups, there is nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:47:07 AM EST
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It is often the case that people find it necessary, in order to support their own feeling of self-respect and self-worth, to take pride in their ancestors and in the entire ethnic group from which they derive
And you find this acceptable for everyone except white folks. (What country, by the way, do Hispanic people come from?)
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:05:51 PM EST
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Ethnic pride is perfectly acceptable for white folks, but as I have already explained to you in some detail, if you are REALLY proud of your white ethnic heritage you should be more specific about it. "White" is not really an ethnicity. White people are British, Irish, Swedish, etc. It is better to take pride in your actual ethnicity, not just in your pallid skin color.
Hispanic people are really a linguistic group more than an ethnic group, but I could say that they come, historically, from Spain, in which the Spanish language originated. Of course, Hispanic people come from many countries, such as Mexico, Guatemala, etc., but the Hispanic culture can be traced back to Spain, that's why it is HiSPANic.
You could argue that since it is a group which includes people of many nationalities, "Hispanic" could be compared to "white" which is true to some extent, but there is one major difference, which is that the kind of abuses that have historically been associated with "white power" groups such as the neo-Nazis, have not been associated with Hispanics. This could change, of course. If I ever see the rise of some kind of Hispanic supremacy movement in the US, I will at that time lose my tolerance for such things as a Hispanic license plate.
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ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 10:38:03 AM EST
5.00 (interesting)
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"White" is not really an ethnicity. White people are British, Irish, Swedish, etc. It is better to take pride in your actual ethnicity, not just in your pallid skin color.
Not really opposed to this idea per se, but I'd like to take a few pokes at it.
How do you take ethnic pride in your ethnicity when all you have to go on (for history) is your black skin color? Presumably you could argue you want to represent 'Ivory Coast' pride..or 'Nigeria pride' but when your ancestors got their travel papers (i.e. chains) -- no one was making careful note separating the different african tribes.
So is it then 'african pride' instead of 'black pride'? And if so -- do Boer S. Africans get to play? I don't think 'descendant of slaves' pride has the same ring to it.
Interested in your thoughts as I honestly don't have any firm opinions on this except for a marginal tendencies to dislike ethnic affiliations/societies.
Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 11:27:53 AM EST
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Oprah thought she was Zulu!
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 11:46:04 AM EST
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Shaka Oprah?
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 12:03:46 PM EST
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There are also a lot of African Americans who erroneously believe that they have a significant amount of Native American (usually Cherokee, in my experience) heritage.
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 12:08:37 PM EST
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25 ain't no jive.
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 12:39:49 PM EST
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Re: ethnic pride
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 05:34:58 PM EST
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25 Percent is heaven sent
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:52:15 PM EST
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Originally they all are descended from Spain.
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:11:33 PM EST
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Originally they all are descended from Spain
No, that would make them Spanish. Hispanic is a different thing.
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:30:33 PM EST
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How?
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: Viva La Raza
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:53:02 PM EST
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Depends on which sort of Hispanic you're talking about.
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Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:47:42 PM EST
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Spanish speaking people who live in Spain are called Spanish, whereas Spanish people living in countries other than Spain are called Hispanic. In both cases, the Spanish language and culture derives ultimately from Spain.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:58:07 PM EST
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...the Spanish language and culture derives ultimately from Spain
Ah, so that's why, for example, Argentinean culture and Dominican culture are the same.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:03:07 PM EST
5.00 (interesting)
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You are making a very elementary error. The fact that Argentina and the Dominican Republic both have cultures which can be traced ultimately back to Spain does not require them therefore to be identical. Cultures evolve over time.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:08:31 PM EST
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The error is that the cultures of "Hispanic" nations do not derive solely from Spain.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:09:51 PM EST
5.00 (astute)
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But of course, I never said that Hispanic cultures derive solely from Spain, I said that they derive ULTIMATELY from Spain. I choose my words carefully. Spain is the earliest source, not the only source.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:58:32 PM EST
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There a lots of Hispanic people who or are not of Spanish descent and don't speak Spanish.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:59:28 PM EST
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Those Swedish Hispanics are fakes.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:44:45 PM EST
5.00 (informative)
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Indigenous immigrants from Oaxaca, Mexico's second-poorest state, have flooded farm labor ranks in Monterey County in the last decade, settling at the bottom of a workforce that traditionally has been among the most exploited in the United States. Mixtecs (pronounced MEESH-tecs) and Triquis (pronounced TREE-keys) make up nearly half of the 70,000 farm workers in the greater valley area, including parts of San Benito, Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties, according to Paul Johnston, a visiting lecturer at the University of California-Berkeley's Institute for Industrial Relations.
They left small farms in the remote hillsides near Putla Villa de Guerrero and nearby San José de Las Flores in western Oaxaca and from other areas throughout the state because of depleted soil and rock-bottom corn and coffee prices. Their arrival - speaking indigenous languages, little Spanish and no English in these majority Latino towns - has created tensions similar to those in white communities experiencing influxes of immigrants around the Bay Area and nationally. Law enforcement, schools and social services such as health care strain to serve the new population, and long-time residents meet them with suspicion or scorn.
A new farmworker survey suggests that nearly a quarter of such laborers in Western Washington are indigenous Mexicans or other Central Americans.
With their distinct culture and history, the relatively new migration of indigenous peoples from Latin America means cultural adjustments for their host towns.
Indigenous peoples from Latin America are the direct descendants of the inhabitants who lived in the region before colonial times....A Mount Vernon radio station run out of the local community college broadcasts public service announcements in one of the native languages -- Mixteco.
"We're involved with all the community and part of the community doesn't speak Spanish," said Carlos Bejar, the Spanish programming director at KSVR-FM/91.7.
According to Mexican government figures, one-third of Oaxacans speak indigenous dialects, and 14 percent don't speak Spanish.
The survey found that around 18 percent of those who said Spanish was not their first language reported that they could not read or write in Spanish.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 01:46:36 AM EST
5.00 (interesting)
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 06:59:00 AM EST
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So what?
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 08:29:41 AM EST
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I think it is true that a lot of people will tend to lump in the indigenous populations of Latin America with the Hispanic population, but these are really separate groups. The term "Hispanic" is clearly derived from Hispania, meaning Spain. Only people who are connected to the language and culture of Spain can legitimately be considered Hispanic.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 08:45:26 AM EST
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Only people who are connected to the language and culture of Spain can legitimately be considered Hispanic
Ah, so someone who doesn't speak Spanish cannot be Hispanic? (Legitimately, I mean.)
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 08:59:49 AM EST
5.00 (astute)
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There are people who don't speak Italian but still consider themselves to be Italian. They do so on the basis of having ancestors who came from Italy and who did speak Italian. It works much the same way with every ethnicity. That is why I said that Hispanics are people who are CONNECTED to the Spanish language, which is not the same thing as saying that they actually speak it (although most do actually speak it). It may be that Hispanic immigrants to the US will gradually adopt the English language and abandon the Spanish one, while still considering themselves to be Hispanic on the basis of their historical connection to Spanish-speaking ancestors.
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 09:08:41 AM EST
5.00 (interesting)
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It works much the same way with every ethnicity. That is why I said that Hispanics are people who are CONNECTED to the Spanish language...
Ah, so "Hispanic" is an
ethnic group. Got it.
Are Filipinos Hispanic?
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Re: Spanish vs. Hispanic
Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 09:34:41 AM EST
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Since I have defined "Hispanic" as the Spanish-speaking people (or even those who are merely descended from Spanish-speaking people) who don't live in Spain itself, then Filipinos would qualify. I realize that the term Hispanic is usually applied only to people from Latin America, but on etymological grounds, Filipinos are as Hispanic as anyone.