Religion

God Says Bring Your Guns To Church

novy.

Posted to Religion on Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 09:40:55 PM EST (promoted by wetkarma). RSS.

Ken Pagano, pastor of Louisville, Kentucky's New Bethel Church, which belongs to Assembly of God, has invited members of his 150-member church to wear or carry their firearms to church as part of his "open carry celebration".

"God and guns were part of the foundation of this country. I don't see any contradiction in this. Not every Christian denomination is pacifist."
Of 40 states with right-to-carry laws, 20 allow guns in churches. If anything unfortunate happens in connection with Pagano's "celebration", at least his members will be prepared for gunfights at Bethel Corral. Cameras will not be allowed in Pagano's church, to protect his members' privacy. Pagano's insurance company canceled his insurance for his "celebration" and plans to cancel his policy for good in December.

Arkansas recently rejected legislation to allow guns in churches, while Georgia has been considering allowing guns in churches and universities despite recent high-profile shootings in both venues. John Phillips, pastor of Central Church of Christ in Little Rock and victim of gun violence in his church in 1986, strongly supported Arkansas' ban. He finds "packing in the pew" abhorrent:

"There is a movement afoot across the nation, with the gun lobby pushing the envelope, trying to allow concealed weapons to be carried in places where they used to be prohibited -- churches, schools, bars. I don't understand how any minister who is familiar with the teachings of the Bible can do this. Jesus didn't say, 'Go ahead, make my day.'"
Pagano called Phillips' remarks "a challenge to his faith", adding
"When someone from within the church tells me that being a Christian and having firearms are contradictions, that they're incompatible with the Gospel -- baloney. As soon as you start saying that it's not something that Christians do, well, guns are just the foil. The issue now is the Gospel. So in a sense, it does become a crusade. Now the Gospel is at stake."
Since "gun" doesn't appear in any Gospel, Pagano's religion apparently doesn't take Biblical literalism too literally. One might even argue that politics have become more important to Pagano than God or Christ. Maybe he should rename his congregation to reflect its spiritual essence. Maybe "NRA Church Of Republicanism" might sum things up more accurately.

Tags: edited by wetkarma, written by novy, guns, god, church (all tags)

This story: 20 comments (1 from subqueue)
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2

Re: God Says Bring Your Guns To Church

Thalia.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 03:28:56 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

The Pastor doesn't know much about American history, that's for sure.  Getting away from Guns & God were much more in line with why this country was founded.  

That said, he he & his congregation want to carry arms, that's their privilege.  Just as long as they warn any unsuspecting bystanders.  Maybe they could rename the church New Bethel Guns & God Church.

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Re: God Says Bring Your Guns To Church

gerrymander.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 04:30:23 PM EST

5.00 (meddlesome)

Getting away from Guns & God were much more in line with why this country was founded.  

And they'd really have gotten away from them, if it wasn't for those meddling kids and their Bill of Rights.

11

Mt 5:9

gerrymander.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 04:40:56 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Since "gun" doesn't appear in any Gospel, Pagano's religion apparently doesn't take Biblical literalism too literally.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers" sounds like an exhortation to carry single-action .45s, at least.

As the saying goes: "God made man, and Samuel Colt made them equal."

1

makes sense to me

wetkarma.

Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 10:11:05 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Sure why not have weapons in a church if the church does not object? Makes sense to me.

As to the religious component, weren't the followers of Jesus armed with weapons of the time? I point to one of them (Peter?) cutting off someone's ear with a sword in the garden prior to him being arrested.

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

5

Harsh words J man

Steve Urkel.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 02:37:26 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

Jesus didn't need a gun. The Gospel of Thomas  tells of teenaged Jesus: "and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died."

Extrapolating from that gospel, I think it is obvious that Jesus is cool with busting caps on suckers, as long as the person pulling the trigger is righteous.

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Re: Harsh words J man

novy.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 03:25:39 PM EST

4.00 (scholarly)

Not really "The Gospel of Thomas", eh? More like "Infancy Gospel of Thomas", during all of which Jesus never exceeds 12 years of age. Jesus neither says nor does anything portentous of his later role in that text, even as "The Gospel of Thomas" contains 114 direct sayings of Jesus redacted from thousands of pages of manuscripts. Some apocrypha may deserve more respect and study than others.  

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Re: Harsh words J man

pO157.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 02:43:55 PM EST

none

Do they have to hold the piece sideways, or is that optional?

♫You's a superstar boy, why you still up in the hood?♫

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Re: Harsh words J man

Steve Urkel.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 02:50:52 PM EST

none

No. Logically, Jesus would not condone ludicrous gunsmanship.

The translator from the above link wrote a bunch of ghost stories.

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Re: Harsh words J man

pO157.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 03:06:20 PM EST

none

The translator from the above link wrote a bunch of ghost stories.

So Jesus doesn't prefer weapons with ghost rings on them?

♫You's a superstar boy, why you still up in the hood?♫

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Re: Harsh words J man

HidingFromGoro.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 01:25:05 AM EST

none

No. Logically, Jesus would not condone ludicrous gunsmanship.

Open-carry advocates are about as ludicrous as gunsmen as they come.  If you want everyone to know you're packing, just get a fannypack holster.

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Re: Harsh words J man

Steve Urkel.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 01:20:02 PM EST

none

I saw a TV thing about the open carry "movement" and they asked one of them why he carries openly, and he said he does it to "get the word out about open carry". Besides the fact that it creeps people out, it seems to me it could easily veer into brandishing territory.

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Re: Harsh words J man

delete me.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 01:29:31 PM EST

none

I view it in the "Hey, shoot me first!" category. Concealed carry is safer and more useful, in my opinion.

- derumi (del-me)
"It is the farewell kiss, you dog!" - Muntadhar al-Zaidi

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Re: Harsh words J man

Steve Urkel.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 01:42:55 PM EST

5.00 (plausible)

Or try to steal the gun when you are distracted. Say you are minding your own business strolling about with a balloon in one hand and one of those giant lollipops in the other. A thug might run up from behind and snatch the Smith & Wesson Model 3 Schofield from your thigh holster.

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Re: Harsh words J man

pO157.

Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:22:33 AM EST

none

While I agree it is a bad idea and I would never do it even if I owned a handgun I think it's important to let individuals make that choice. Do they want to look ludicrous as they walk down the street? That's their call, not mine.

Then again, perhaps being ludicrous is in the eyes of the beholder. When I lived in the Gem State it was rare to see people carrying a weapon openly, although they still did it and I never saw anybody freak out or get bent out of shape over it. So whatever, I may not do it, you may not do it, but I think we should give folks the right to choose on their own.

♫You's a superstar boy, why you still up in the hood?♫

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Re: Harsh words J man

HidingFromGoro.

Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 01:33:04 AM EST

none

Sorry but even though I'm all for exercising any and all rights untill the cows come home open carry is retarded.  You never ever need to advertise you're carrying "just because" because in an area where guns can be carried the thought is it creates a deterrent- that the hypothetical criminal needs to "think twice" before he jumps on someone at the ATM.  Open carry defeats this because once that criminal can see who is carrying and who is not, the deterrent goes away.

Guns frighten women & men of slight constitution, and the scapegoat is always the swaggering redneck in an all-white, low-crime area who wants his toy.  OC reinforces that.  OC creates gun prohibitions where there might not have been any, OC reinforces stereotypes and gives unscrupulous media hacks fodder for cheap-thrill stories.

I've been on occasion known to carry a lil' something, maybe a knife, maybe a sap or an ASP, and I'm certainly not going to admit carrying a pistol; and why in the hell would I want to advertise that?

p0157, you know I'm always going to be your posting bro, and that I'm as strident an advocate of gun rights as you are if not more, but trust me when I say this- OCAs cause more harm than good.

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Re: Harsh words J man

pO157.

Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 11:04:35 AM EST

none

I agree completely with all your reasons why carrying a weapon openly is retarded. I don't know many reasonable people that would do so. Still, people should have the right to be idiots as long as it does not impact others. Should somebody be prohibited from sending a racist diatribe in to the newspaper editor? No. But that doesn't mean they should do it.

You are correct in that it allows people to stereotype gun owners negatively, unfortunately education of non-gunowners should include the information that there are extremes in every organization. Just as there are Obama supporters who want to confiscate cash from the rich to pay the mortgages and gas bills of the poor there are likely gun owners who act within the confines of the law but behave like total idiots. I'm sure Obama's staffers would have liked to get rid of the fruitcakes, just as I'd like to see the "ZOMG WOLVERINES COMMIES BLACK HELICOPTERS UN!!!!!!!!" people STFU, but I would be the first one to speak up against a move to curtail their rights.

In this manner I see open carry in the same was as I see the right to burn the flag in protest: It's important to understand you have the right to do these things, but that doesn't mean you should.

♫You's a superstar boy, why you still up in the hood?♫

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Re: Harsh words J man

gerrymander.

Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:02:00 PM EST

none

Open carry defeats this because once that criminal can see who is carrying and who is not, the deterrent goes away.

Not for the guy openly carrying. Better to say that open carry concentrates the deterrence factor upon those seen as openly carrying. This may cause a criminal to conclude (correctly or not) that his greatest threat is the guy with the visible holster, and plan accordingly.

why in the hell would I want to advertise that?

Guns frighten women & men of slight constitution

Question asked, question answered.

3

LIfe imitates art?

Lou.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 11:44:02 AM EST

none

Beat Farmers

Minty fresh

4

Re: God Says Bring Your Guns To Church

delete me.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 12:31:06 PM EST

none

Maybe George Tiller would still be alive.

/NRA

- derumi (del-me)
"It is the farewell kiss, you dog!" - Muntadhar al-Zaidi

13

Re: God Says Bring Your Guns To Church

ThePlague.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:42:53 AM EST

none

One of the main impetuses for finally recognizing the right of the individual to self-protection in the form of concealed carry laws was mass killing sprees.  That's how it happened in Texas and the Luby's massacre back in the early 90's.  Having specific laws that forbid firearms from certain public venues without the requirement that some form of screening occurs (i.e. metal detectors or the like) negates the intention and leaves the law-abiding citizen at the conundrum of either breaking that law themselves or relying on mass-murderers to follow it.  In most places, churches and schools forbid lawful carrying of firearms, and thus are prime targets for crazy shooters.  We've seen that time and time again, with the same result each time:  even more restrictions on carrying, or guns in general.  Like most government action, it creates the problem with idiotic meddling, and then exacerbates the resulting problems by pointing to them as justification for even more intrusion.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

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