Do you believe it didn't?  Your comment seemed to indicate that a woman being threatened in the dark was funny...not that you didn't believe it.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Of course I don't believe it; it's a preposterous story.

But yet you find the idea of a woman (or any person?) alone and vulnerable in the dark amusing?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

No, I had been reading the article and was wondering why a city of 380,000 needed a police helicopter. Then I discovered it was needed to chase cars full of drunken men in order to protect the virtue of the city's young ladies. It's like a scene from a crappy movie, but I gotta wonder: was the car's driver drunk, too? So the helicopter chased away a drunk driver and then...what, exactly? Presumably he kept driving drunk because I can't imagine the helicopter landing and conducting a traffic stop and sobriety test. (Well, I guess I can imagine it, but that's a funny scene, too.)

Or maybe the driver wasn't drunk and the police were using a helicopter to harass innocent civilians? Still kind of funny in a way, but if that's what happened then it's good that the cops' toy was taken away from them: they're too immature to play with it properly.

The town I grew up in was smaller than Colorado Springs and it had a helicopter.  And yes, it was a waste and a good thing we got rid of it.  Just as it was a good idea for CS to get rid of theirs, but there is a larger context than vulnerable citizens that you seem to find funny.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

I don't find vulnerable citizens to be funny, but I think helicopters chasing drunks is hilarious.

Also, did you know that Lon Chaney was from Colorado Springs?

"Also, did you know that Lon Chaney was from Colorado Springs?"

I had a hunch that was the case.

Tending to final details.

That's terrible. May you be beaten by a carload of drunken men.

Ok, check on the vulnerable citizen angle.  I'm sorry you weren't more clear about that in the beginning.  However, police doing their job (checking out suspected drunk drivers) is a gut buster for you?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

From a helicopter? Yeah, that's funny.

Helicopters: "But this week, faced with a tightening budget, the Colorado Springs Police Department grounded its aviation unit, reassigning three full-time pilots to patrol duty and putting its two vintage Bell helicopters up for sale for $350,000."

Yeah, it's not like insanely high fines for speeding lead police to become defacto taxmen and ignore much more egregious traffic offenses to go after the low hanging fruit.

It's also not like DUI BAC tests are wildly inaccurate, and coupled with a very low threshhold for being considered "drunk" will result in many regular people being branded as criminals and jailed.

Nice.

Never compromise.

As the spiritual (I bet ya'll forgot I was an ordained minister) and risk adviser for TnT, I have two recommendations:

1. Don't speed.

2. Don't drink at all if you're going to drive.  Pilots have a useful phrase in this case.  I believe it goes "X hours from bottle to throttle"

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

My...aren't we full of ourselves today?  If you think trash pickup is an easy job, I suggest you try it.  I have an easy job...I sit in a climate controlled office and work on a computer.  Trash haulers have to work in the rain, cold and heat in often heavy traffic.  Yeah, real easy.  What about the folks that pick up dumpsters and roll-ons?  Do you think that job is easy?

It pisses me off when people show arrogant disdain for the "dirty jobs".  Oh sure...everyone should be an engineer, doctor, computer programmer, investment banker.  Fuck that.  We need people to do the "stuff".  When I was a teacher and starting a new job, one of the first things I did was seek out the janitors.  Why should I?  I mean it's just a menial job...how hard is it to push a broom?  Wrong.  Janitors are the folks that help keep the work environment tidy.  They're "menial" job, done well, made it easier for me to do my job.  You don't think garbage collection is important?  I'm reminded of the story of a body's organs arguing who was the most important.  They all laughed at the bowel when it said it was the most important.  Yet, when the bowel stopped itself up, no one laughed anymore.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

"My...aren't we full of ourselves today?  If you think trash pickup is an easy job, I suggest you try it.  I have an easy job...I sit in a climate controlled office and work on a computer.  Trash haulers have to work in the rain, cold and heat in often heavy traffic.  Yeah, real easy.  What about the folks that pick up dumpsters and roll-ons?  Do you think that job is easy?"

I could do the job, but I choose not to because my training affords me other higher paying options.  My point is that the job requires almost no skill, and the strength of your average man is more than adequate to fulfill the job requirements.  Almost any young adult male could do the job with no problems.

"It pisses me off when people show arrogant disdain for the "dirty jobs"."

How have I shown 'arrogant disdain' for dirty jobs?  Somebody has to do them, but if they are low skilled jobs that just about anybody could do, nobody should expect to be paid much for doing them.

Janitors BTW are much more highly skilled than your average garbage man.

They should be paid what the market will bear - which is not much.

Sounds pretty disdainful to me.

nobody should expect to be paid much for doing them.

Even the drivers of the trucks?

Meh...you're probably right.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

"Sounds pretty disdainful to me."

Advocating that the forces of supply and demand determine pay levels is disdainful?  Realizing that the fact that there is a huge pool of people who could do a particular low skilled job means that market rate for that job will be low - that's similarly disdainful?

I already said you were right. What more do you want?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Garbage collection is important, however, taking a low skill job that would pay barely minimum wage on the open market and putting it as a civil service, full benefits + pension + extra salary + union says I get a break + whatever position leads to massive cost overruns. That's waste, and that's not cool.

Nobody is disparaging the garbage collectors simply by stating that making these into public jobs overinflates their wages.

Never compromise.

would pay barely minimum wage on the open market

Well, the open market seems to disagree with you.  Waste Management, Inc pays its trash folk a median of $15.61/hr.  Which, depending on the market, seems fair...especially since there are avenues for promotion within the company.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Please, I don't want to pick a fight with either side of this dispute, but allow me to muddy the waters even further:

Garbage truck drivers are required (everywhere, this is federal DOT) to hold either a class I or class II (depending upon the gross weight of the truck) Commercial Drivers License, with at least the Hazardous Materials endorsement. Several states require other endorsements as well.

While the tests to obtain these certifications are not terribly difficult when compared to - for example - a state bar exam, they are not a walk in the park either. My point is that the image of the dim, no-skilled, dirty garbage truck guy is badly dated.

Most municipal services (and private haulers) in my area have gone to the automated trucks anyway. The driver simply pulls up beside the roll-out container and extended a hydraulic arm that grabs the container, lifts it into the back of the truck, inverts it, then returns it to the curb. The driver never gets out of the truck unless there is a malfunction.

We have to place our roll-out container no less than two but no more than five feet from the curb and the lid of the container must face the street. If the container is improperly placed, you don't get serviced on that run. Also another crew with a different truck collects yard waste and large items that won't fit into the roll-out can. That's a somewhat nastier job, but those crews don't have to pick up organics, either. Only dry waste, appliances, furniture, etc.

My point in this rambling dissertation is that Lou's figure of $15 or $16/hour  with reasonable benefits sounds about right. Garbage collection is not and should not be a minimum wage job. But the problem is that in many large urban areas, union posturing has inflated municipal waste hauler salaries into the $60k+ range with lavish benefits. And that is even more insane than underpaying for the job.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

Most municipal services (and private haulers) in my area have gone to the automated trucks anyway. The driver simply pulls up beside the roll-out container and extended a hydraulic arm that grabs the container, lifts it into the back of the truck, inverts it, then returns it to the curb. The driver never gets out of the truck unless there is a malfunction.

We have to place our roll-out container no less than two but no more than five feet from the curb and the lid of the container must face the street. If the container is improperly placed, you don't get serviced on that run. Also another crew with a different truck collects yard waste and large items that won't fit into the roll-out can. That's a somewhat nastier job, but those crews don't have to pick up organics, either. Only dry waste, appliances, furniture, etc.

My point in this rambling dissertation is that Lou's figure of $15 or $16/hour  with reasonable benefits sounds about right. Garbage collection is not and should not be a minimum wage job. But the problem is that in many large urban areas, union posturing has inflated municipal waste hauler salaries into the $60k+ range with lavish benefits. And that is even more insane than underpaying for the job.

See, there's your problem. In BUF we had trucks with a driver and 2 or 3 guys. If the driver has a CDL & hazmat endorsement plus runs the machine and never gets out of the cab there isn't an issue with inflated pay as that has become a skilled job.

Instead in places like BUF we have calcification due to the public status of these workers that prevents new technology like the one you mentioned from moving in. Why should they buy the new trucks and switch to a one man/truck format when you can have 4 guys making union scale on jobs that can be given out to political patrons?

Never compromise.

jobs that can be given out to political patrons?

Trash hauler jobs can be patronage positions?!  Christ on a crutch...BUF is worse than I thought.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Hell when you've got 3 guys on a truck, on any given day at least 33% of the workforce is available to go door to door for the re-election campaign of whoever got them the job, and the city pays for it.

I am such a babe in the woods when it comes to big city living.  Glad I live in Maine.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

There are so many city-dwellers who will never know the pleasure of a Saturday morning trip to the dump.

Well Ken...I have to say that this is one place where I agree with you.  Going to the dump on a Saturday morning (especially on a cool fall day) is actually pretty nice.  You drink coffee, shoot the shit with your neighbors, and sometimes in the 'take-n-leave' shed, you can find something useful.  

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

You don't know how right you are. When the armies of "volunteers" would come around knocking on doors about half of them would have union or work uniforms on. They didn't even try to hide it.

Never compromise.

Is that legal?

If it's on the city's clock, definitely.  Even if it's off the clock I think it's a pretty unethical practice.  But then again taking a job that pays well and requires no actual work is pretty damned unethical as well - so hell, why shouldn't they have to work a little for the person putting slop in their trough.

Yeah, the mayor and his flunky responsible for the "volunteer" campaign work is under federal investigation. One of the many going down right now at City Hall. Of course, the voters punished the mayor by re-electing him by a wide margin and the mayor punished his flunky by reappointing her to the same political patronage job again.

Never compromise.

Of course I know how right I am - I live in Chicago :)  Half the municipal workforce here is ganged into 'volunteering' at election time.  No no, I am exaggerating, it's probably only 40% of the workforce.

Good stuff, T.  Thanks.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Do they offer the lifetime pensions and obscene benefits that come with civil service gigs?

That's where they get ya.

Never compromise.

I use WMI as an example since from where I'm sitting, I can see three WMI dumpsters (also, it is among the largest trash companies in the US).  They offer a pretty standard plate of pension/health/vacation benefits.  These may or may not be obscene...but it sure isn't minimum wage.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

You know who laughed the hardest at the bowel? The humerus.

rimshot

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

We take our own trash and as there is a freestore there it is a nice opportunity to pick up some stuff as well.  I usually go about once a month but could easily get that down to once every two months.  Paying $20-40/pickup seems like a lot to me, although you probably have weekly service so are paying less per pickup.  Still... compost, cut back on packaged goods and you can easily get your trash load down to about a bag a week... easy to store that for a month and do the run yourself.

easy to store that for a month and do the run yourself.

We actually do only about a bag a week, so we could probably do that, but the closest waste transfer station is about 52 miles away (1.5 hours round trip, depending on traffic) in a direction that I never have a good reason to travel (so the trip would always just be for the trash).  It also costs $4.35 a load (+gas to get there and back) to dump, so I'd only be saving about $12 (I pay $20.85 a month now, - $4.35 - $4.75 for gas = $11.75).  An hour and a half of my time is worth $12 or so extra a month.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.